If your willing to share your knowledge/experience I'm willing to learn

[guile_99703]

I had read on another site about a short cycle for nubies that was supposed to give incredible gains.

4 weeks of Methandrostenolone 50mg/day and Trenbolone Acetate 75mg/day followed by a Tamoxifen Citrate regimen that started a couple days after the last injection.

There was also a more advanced cycle listed,
4 weeks with the same Methandrostenolone 50mg/day, Trenbolone Acetate 75mg/day but also included Testosterone Propionate 100mg/day and Liquidex 1.5mg/day followed by the Tamoxifen Citrate regimen.

I read elsewhere that .5mg/day Liquidex is the normal dosage and that there is very little to be gained by exceeding it, is that true in this case?

I've also read that Trenbolone Acetate is hard to recover from (but not much on specifics), I assume its hard to get your natural hormone levels back in check after your cycle ends? Will a short cycle make Trenbolone manageable enough for a newbie?

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin sounds like it might be useful in getting your natural hormones flowing after a cycle? But I haven't seen it used in many cycles that I have read about, does it interact poorly with other hormones or estrogen suppressors?

Is the HCG sold under the name "Chorulon" for $25/10,000iu. effective and/or safe?

How about Aromasin, I know it would cost almost $200 a month at 25mg/day but if it were used post cycle instead of Tamoxifen Citrate or Clomiphine Citrate could you recover more rapidly with less post cycle losses? Does it play well with HCG?

Now we get to where I was really wanting to go, feel free to tell me if you think I'm being a bumbass, just please tell me why, (other than the cost of course)

Why not stack 100mg/day Test-pro with 70mg/day Tren and 50mg/day D-bol while taking .5mg/day of Arimidex for a 4 week cycle with a post cycle of 500iu/day HCG for 3-5 days and 25mg/day Aromasin for up to a month?

Will this stack/cycle be effective?

Does all this stuff play well together?

Is there enough estrogen suppression there so I wont be growing breasts on cycle?

Will the HCG and Aromasin be effective enough together to help me keep most of my gains and recover in a shorter time frame?

How long should the HCG and Aromasin be taken (are my figures close?) Can you take HCG for a full week? will it speed up recovery?

I have made a grocery list and it looks like all this can be had in sufficient quantities to run 2 cycles (with 2 full months of Aromasin during recoveries) for about $800 (about half of that is Aromasin so if it can be brought down to 2 weeks per recovery that would be nice)

As far as making the best use of Aromasin for the money, would it be reasonable to just run 2 weeks of it post cycle followed by 1-2 weeks of Nolvadex or Clomid? How would that dosing/schedule look?

[Mr.X]

first, tell us more about yourself, stats /diet etc..

seems like you're talking about advanced cycles but we don't know enough about you

[erokyrwrld]

Phew! That's a lot of ?s

I had read on another site about a short cycle for nubies that was supposed to give incredible gains.

4 weeks of Methandrostenolone 50mg/day and Trenbolone Acetate 75mg/day followed by a Tamoxifen Citrate regimen that started a couple days after the last injection.

There was also a more advanced cycle listed,
4 weeks with the same Methandrostenolone 50mg/day, Trenbolone Acetate 75mg/day but also included Testosterone Propionate 100mg/day and Liquidex 1.5mg/day followed by the Tamoxifen Citrate regimen.

I read elsewhere that .5mg/day Liquidex is the normal dosage and that there is very little to be gained by exceeding it, is that true in this case?

Adex will severely curtail estrogen related bloat. However, some bloat is a good thing as the more water in your muscles, the faster they will grow. Stick to .5mg/ed on this cycle.

I've also read that Trenbolone Acetate is hard to recover from (but not much on specifics), I assume its hard to get your natural hormone levels back in check after your cycle ends? Will a short cycle make Trenbolone manageable enough for a newbie?

Tren will shut you down harder and faster than most AAS. It is not a newbie drug, as the agression and sides will be tough to deal with. Still, a four week cycle shouldn't be that hard on the system. If you never used tren before, I would stick with 75mg/eod at first. Tren is a helluva drug.

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin sounds like it might be useful in getting your natural hormones flowing after a cycle? But I haven't seen it used in many cycles that I have read about, does it interact poorly with other hormones or estrogen suppressors?

HCG will mimic LH and cause your testicles to swell. This helps with recovery as your testes will have less space to cover on their way to bouncing back. HCG alone will not do much for recovery.

Is the HCG sold under the name "Chorulon" for $25/10,000iu. effective and/or safe?

There are many brands out there and this is a really good price. HCG is safe so long as the dosage is reasonable. Too much, too quick can burn out your Leydig cells.

How about Aromasin, I know it would cost almost $200 a month at 25mg/day but if it were used post cycle instead of Tamoxifen Citrate or Clomiphine Citrate could you recover more rapidly with less post cycle losses? Does it play well with HCG?

Aromasin is an aromatase inhibitor and is better utilized during cycle. Research companies will have it for cheaper in liquid form. I would use Tamox or Clomid post-cycle as they are proven to restore natural test production.

Now we get to where I was really wanting to go, feel free to tell me if you think I'm being a bumbass, just please tell me why, (other than the cost of course)

Why not stack 100mg/day Test-pro with 70mg/day Tren and 50mg/day D-bol while taking .5mg/day of Arimidex for a 4 week cycle with a post cycle of 500iu/day HCG for 3-5 days and 25mg/day Aromasin for up to a month?

Will this stack/cycle be effective?

For such a short cyle, I would hit the HCG @ 500iu/week during the cycle in addition to the post-cycle use. The tren dosage seems high for a newbie, see my earlier suggestion. Drop the dbol to 30-40mg if its your first time, otherwise feel free to go up to 50mg. Sub nolvadex for the aromasin, cheaper and more effective. 60mg/ed for first week, 40mg/ed second week, 20mg/ed third week.

Does all this stuff play well together?

There are no real issues with your proposal in terms of chemical reactions and synergy.

Is there enough estrogen suppression there so I wont be growing breasts on cycle?

More than enough for a 4 weeker.

Will the HCG and Aromasin be effective enough together to help me keep most of my gains and recover in a shorter time frame?

No, most of your "gains" will be water retention from the dbol; expect to lose that. However, you will maintain some size and strength. Figure if you go up 10lbs, you'll lose 5.

How long should the HCG and Aromasin be taken (are my figures close?) Can you take HCG for a full week? will it speed up recovery?

See my earlier suggestion for the HCG. If you insist on Aromasin post cycle, go 25mg/ed for 1 week, and drop it to 12.5mg/ed for two weeks.

I have made a grocery list and it looks like all this can be had in sufficient quantities to run 2 cycles (with 2 full months of Aromasin during recoveries) for about $800 (about half of that is Aromasin so if it can be brought down to 2 weeks per recovery that would be nice)

Save $$, go with nolvadex post cycle. Its more effective and significantly cheaper. Aromasin is fairly cheap at research companies such as the board sponser.

As far as making the best use of Aromasin for the money, would it be reasonable to just run 2 weeks of it post cycle followed by 1-2 weeks of Nolvadex or Clomid? How would that dosing/schedule look?

No. Stick with one compound so as not to confuse your body.

[guile_99703]

I'm about 6' tall, 250lbs (apx 15% Body fat), and 30 years old. I got out of the military at 230 (in peak condition) a little while ago and haven't been doing much running since (which I'm pretty sure accounts for the extra 20lbs).

I've never been able to get much over 230 lean, even as a teenager for over 5 years I worked out, dieted, and got plenty of rest under the advice, direction and supervision of PE teachers, football coaches and even a trainer/sports therapist for a little while, At that time my primary focus of bulking up (I really wanted to hit 300lbs to improve my chances of getting a free post high school education).

In the military I got a lot more cardio (at least a couple miles a day worth) Though I worked hard on chest, back, and arms and still peaked right around 230.

Now that I'm out of the military I have no desire or intention of ever running a marathon or making a 26 mile road march under full combat load. That having been said I have no problem sacrificing endurance for size but I need some help pushing past this plateau.

I don't fear needles anymore (the military cured me of that) and I don't have an issue with injecting myself (I was a combat lifesaver so Im familiar with needles)

I'm a pretty technically oriented kind of guy so I'm not intimidated by Finaplix-H Preparation.

I'm not a smoker or heavy drinker, I rarely catch colds and I do not take any medications. My only allergy is bee stings (and that's not so bad that I have ever gotten a kit for it). The only surgery I've ever have had was a vasectomy which was done shortly after I got out. My family does not have a history of heart disease, diabetes, or any of those other things they ask about on medical and insurance forms. I'm entirely healthy (I've never even had a cold sore).

Recently I have felt less energetic and have noticed a decrease in libido, I assume it has to do with the weight gain and winter months and I speculate that the gear will help in those arias.

Oh yah diet:
My diet is currently in a state of evolution though loosely biased on the high protein low carb dies with influence from the glycemic index diets.

Though a couple of threads by StrappingYoungLad are certainly going to influence further evolution.

I do not have my ideal diet down yet. Once honed hopefully I won't need to change it much from month to month, but I'm not going for the ripped look right now so I am comfortable staying between 10-15% body fat (maybe 10 at the end of a cycle and 15 at the end of recovery?). If I could manage it to work out that way I should be able to keep my weight at a fairly consistent, gradual rise, and if all goes well maybe in a couple years I can decide if I want to lean out for a more ripped look.

[guile_99703]

erokyrwrld:

You had mentioned that Aromasin would be better used on cycle, would it be better than Arimidex on the Tren, D-bol cycles mentioned earlier? How do Aromasin and Arimidex compare to each other pros/cons?

Speculating that Arimidex is the on cycle choice (if for no other reason than than to save some green) the amended cycle should look something like this?:

4 weeks of Arimidex .5mg/ed, D-bol 30mg/ed, 70mg Tren/eod, and HCG 500iu end of each week.
Followed by HCG 500iu/ed (for ? days) and nolvadex 60mg/ed first week, 40mg/ed second week, 20mg/ed third week starting 2 days after last Tren injection?

Other than HCG 500iu once a week on cycle, are there other considerations that could be made, or should be considered when going into a Tren cycle? (Especially in the interest of a full and rapid recovery)

[djsf]

erok, I couldn't have said it better myself. Great advice!

guile, having just completed a tren cycle, I will say: you will be amazed at the results from tren, and you will be surprised how long and hard the recovery is. 4 weeks might not be so bad (I did 9 weeks) but I have found the effects to be very long lasting, as in months. It took a solid 2 months before I could start gaining muscle again, and my sex drive was pretty wall non-existant during that time. This is after doing a very complete and correct PCT. Tren is brutal, definitely not the steroid of choice for newbies.

For a newbie, I'd like to see you have a pleasant experience with an easy recovery. I would start with a test-only cycle, or test + dbol if you insist. You should get very nice results from 4 weeks of test prop at 100mg ed. I did that exact cycle last spring and loved it. It was a short cycle with noticeable results and a very easy recovery with maintainable gains and virtually no shutdown.

[erokyrwrld]

erokyrwrld:

You had mentioned that Aromasin would be better used on cycle, would it be better than Arimidex on the Tren, D-bol cycles mentioned earlier? How do Aromasin and Arimidex compare to each other pros/cons?

Adex and aromasin are very similar in nature. Both are aromatase inhibitors. I prefer adex because it doesn't cause a drop in sex drive. Aromasin is more expensive and dries me out a lot more.

Speculating that Arimidex is the on cycle choice (if for no other reason than than to save some green) the amended cycle should look something like this?:

4 weeks of Arimidex 5mg/ed, D-bol 30mg/ed, 70mg Tren/eod, and HCG 500iu end of each week.
Followed by HCG 500iu/ed (for ? days) and nolvadex 60mg/ed first week, 40mg/ed second week, 20mg/ed third week starting 2 days after last Tren injection?

Don't forget your test, but your protocol looks good. 2 days after your last shot, run HCG @ 500-1000iu/ed for 3 days along with the nolvadex. HCG can cause a spike in estrogen, so concurrent use of nolva is a good idea.

Other than HCG 500iu once a week on cycle, are there other considerations that could be made, or should be considered when going into a Tren cycle? (Especially in the interest of a full and rapid recovery)

Like djsf stated, tren is a hard drug to bounce back from, but with a 4 week cycle and HCG weekly, you should be fine.

hjhgv

[guile_99703]

In regards to the cycle that erokyrwrld is helping me tune:

4 weeks of Arimidex .5mg/ed, D-bol 30mg/ed, Test-Pro 100mg/ed, Tren/eod 70mg, and HCG 500iu end of each week.

Followed by HCG 500iu/ed (3 days) and Volvadex 60mg/ed first week, 40mg/ed second week, 20mg/ed third week both starting 2 days after last Tren injection?

The post cycle therapy is 3 weeks 2 days long.
How long after I finish PCT should I wait before starting another cycle?

Also, The last day on cycle would include a (end of week) HCG injection before the 2 days off cycle, that would be followed by the 3 days HCG as part of PCT.
SHould the last on cycle HCG be held off and just increase the dosage during my 3 days PCT to 750-1000iu each?

Please understand that I'm not question anyone's advice, methods, or reasoning. I am actually trying to fully (or as fully as possible) understand it so I can better learn the lesson (not just the answer).

On a similar note I would love to hear from as many other knowledgeable/experienced members of this board as possible.
Regardless if you agree or argue with the what I'm looking into.
I'm certainly not trying to create conflict between any of the members here, but looking to obtain the broadest perspective possible.

[djsf]

I would not suggest doing tren in a first cycle. The recovery will be difficult and you would not have the experience to diagnose the situation very well. Yopu might even hate steroids after that. Why do you want to include tren? I can tell you right now that given this is a first cycle, you would get great results from just the rest of your cycle: test prop at 700mg ew, along with dbol and liquidex.

Why not do this cycle without tren to get the hang of things, then you can add tren in on your next cycle.

[guile_99703]

Tren is cheap (2g in Finaplix is under $35, and 4g in Component TH is under $60).

Tren is available, with no prescription necessary its easily obtained through many sources on the open market.

Tren is supposed to give great strength and weight gains.

Not to mention, the more reading I do, the more concerned I become about buying gear, especially from overseas which is where most of the suppliers are.

I started with a list of 7 different products that I saw in regular use during the cycles I read about (or otherwise sounded promising). All 7 came from different suppliers, many of which are overseas and all of which I planned to pay for using a credit card, or a payment service (using my credit card). Think of how much I would have exposed myself......

Now I'm thinking one stop shopping is probably the best route, and definitely cash or money orders are the only ways to pay.

All I can come up with now is to buddy up with a cattle farmer or veterinarian so I can get my tren, HCG, and Dbol (or whats is available to them). All from a single source at the same time. that way all I have to worry about finding is Nolvadex.

So at this point what I really need is to do some networking, see what options open up to me, and try to build a cycle around whatever becomes available. Tren is the only certainty at this point.